Podcast

SPOS #977 – Dan Heath On How To Change What’s Not Working

Welcome to episode #977 of Six Pixels of Separation – The ThinkersOne Podcast.

Dan Heath is a frequent and always welcome guest on this show, and with good reason – few people have done more to translate complex human behavior and organizational dynamics into smart, actionable insights. You probably know Dan as the co-author (with his brother Chip Heath) of some of the most beloved and bestselling business books of the past two decades, including Made To Stick, Switch, Decisive, and The Power of Moments. His work has reshaped the way leaders think about communication, decision-making, change, and the emotional beats that define experience. With his latest solo book, Reset – How To Change What’s Not Working, Dan continues this tradition – offering a practical framework for identifying leverage points that can unlock real transformation, even in systems that feel stuck or bloated by inertia. In this conversation, we dug into why momentum beats speed, how progress (not perfection) is the most powerful motivator in the workplace, and why so many leaders miss the mark by focusing on customer experience while overlooking the employee experience. We also talk about the role of self-doubt, the necessity of feedback, and how the Great Resignation isn’t just about quitting – it’s about a systemic failure to reimagine work. Dan’s signature mix of rigorous research, compelling storytelling, and approachable wisdom is on full display here. You should also check out his podcast, What It’s Like To Be…. If you’ve ever wondered why change efforts stall – or how to get unstuck with the same people and resources – this one’s for you. Enjoy the conversation…

Running time: 56:48.
Hello from beautiful Montreal.
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or you can connect on LinkedIn.
…or on X.
Here is my conversation with Dan Heath.
Reset – How To Change What’s Not Working.
Made To Stick.
Switch.
Decisive.
The Power of Moments.
What It’s Like To Be…
Follow Dan on LinkedIn.
This week’s music: David Usher ‘St. Lawrence River’.

Chapters:

(00:00) – Introduction to Reset and Its Themes.
(02:54) – Understanding Inefficiencies in Organizations.
(05:58) – The Role of Technology in Problem Solving.
(09:01) – Team Dynamics and Collaborative Change.
(12:08) – Leverage Points for Effective Change.
(15:10) – Motivation and Employee Engagement.
(17:56) – Cultural Differences in Organizational Success.
(21:03) – The Shift from Customer to Employee Experience.
(32:06) – The Great Resignation and Management Challenges.
(34:02) – Management by Walking Around: A Timeless Approach.
(36:19) – Inertia and the Challenge of Change.
(38:34) – Momentum vs. Speed: The Key to Progress.
(40:08) – The Progress Principle: Motivation Through Meaningful Work.
(41:56) – The Reality of Modern Work.
(43:53) – Defining Waste: A New Perspective on Efficiency.
(45:53) – The Role of Government in Efficiency and Change.
(52:40) – Self-Doubt and Openness to Feedback.

Download the Podcast here: Six Pixels of Separation – The ThinkersOne Podcast – Episode #977.

Before you go… ThinkersOne is a new way for organizations to buy bite-sized and personalized thought leadership video content (live and recorded) from the best Thinkers in the world. If you’re looking to add excitement and big smarts to your meetings, corporate events, company off-sites, “lunch & learns” and beyond, check it out.

Mitch Joel

Mitch Joel lives at the intersection of technology, business transformation and consumer culture. He is the Executive Director of Next Era Institute, a strategic intelligence platform helping leaders understand the forces reshaping business, technology, culture and society. The Institute identifies which shifts matter, explores their wider significance and translates them into strategic direction and momentum. Mitch is also a globally recognized keynote speaker. He has delivered thousands of presentations across both B2B and B2C industries to organizations including Google, Walmart, LEGO, Shopify, Microsoft, Procter & Gamble and Unilever. Strategy Magazine has called him “one of North America’s leading visionaries.” Mitch built his career by working directly inside the waves of change that reshaped modern business. He founded and built a digital marketing agency that worked with some of the world’s largest brands and was later acquired by WPP, where he served as President of a firm operating in 25 countries with almost 3,000 employees. Mitch is the bestselling author of Six Pixels of Separation and CTRL ALT Delete, and the host of Thinking With Mitch Joel, one of the longest-running business podcasts in the world. His writing and commentary appear in outlets including Harvard Business Review, Fast Company and Inc. Magazine. He is a member of Dr. Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 Coaches and was named to the Thinkers50 Radar. Mitch also hosts Groove – The No Treble Podcast, documenting the oral history of electric bass players. Mitch is also Co-Founder of ThinkersOne, a platform that enables companies to bring personalized thought leadership from world-class experts into meetings, events and off-sites in focused 15-minute bursts.