Podcast

SPOS #964 – Tamsen Webster On Big Ideas That You Can’t Unhear

Welcome to episode #964 of Six Pixels of Separation – The ThinkersOne Podcast.

Tamsen Webster is an expert of messaging and an architect of transformative communication. Over her 25-year career, Tamsen has helped leaders, from Harvard Medical School to Fidelity Investments, craft messages that don’t just resonate – they stick, long after the words are spoken. Her latest book, Say What They Can’t Unhear – The 9 Principles of Lasting Change (she is also the author of Find Your Red Thread), is a guide to creating messages so compelling, they can’t be ignored. In our conversation, we explored her fresh take on persuasion, focusing on building understanding before asking for agreement – a concept so simple yet often overlooked. Tamsen revealed why storytelling still works (hint: our brains are wired for it) but also why it sometimes fails, especially when the story doesn’t align with the audience’s core beliefs. Her approach, rooted in science and steeped in empathy, pushes us to find common ground – not by oversimplifying the message, but by connecting with deeply held truths. Our dialogue covered everything from the evolution of storytelling to the resurgence of Socratic discourse in modern conversations, and even how polarization impacts how we communicate. But what struck me most was her ability to balance the rational with the emotional, showing that truly effective messaging requires both. Tamsen’s insights go beyond the typical “problem-solution” framework, offering a model that encourages dialogue, understanding, and long-term engagement. If you’ve ever struggled to present a big idea or faced resistance when trying to spark change, this episode is a masterclass in how to say what others can’t unhear. Enjoy the conversation…

Running time: 1:07:50.
Hello from beautiful Montreal.
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Here is my conversation with Tamsen Webster.
Say What They Can’t Unhear – The 9 Principles of Lasting Change.
Find Your Red Thread.
Message Design Institute.
Follow Tamsen on X.
Follow Tamsen on Instagram.
Follow Tamsen on LinkedIn.
This week’s music: David Usher ‘St. Lawrence River’.

Chapters:

(00:00) – Introduction to Tamsen Webster and Her Work.
(01:53) – The Evolution of Storytelling.
(05:36) – Understanding the Structure of Stories.
(07:59) – Why Stories Sometimes Fail.
(10:06) – The Impact of Polarization on Storytelling.
(12:25) – Beliefs and Their Role in Storytelling.
(17:54) – Finding Common Ground in Communication.
(20:35) – The Importance of Understanding in Persuasion.
(24:56) – Permission Persuasion: A New Approach.
(26:55) – Character Development in Storytelling.
(30:48) – The Shift in Storytelling Techniques.
(35:43) – Excavating Beliefs for Better Communication.
(37:50) – Understanding Cause and Effect in Communication.
(40:00) – The Challenge of New Ideas in a Saturated Market.
(42:59) – The Importance of Long-Term Engagement.
(45:53) – Exploring the Depth of Storytelling.
(48:51) – The Return of Socratic Discourse.
(53:09) – Bridging the Gap Between Rational and Emotional Understanding.

Download the Podcast here: Six Pixels of Separation – The ThinkersOne Podcast – Episode #964.

Before you go… ThinkersOne is a new way for organizations to buy bite-sized and personalized thought leadership video content (live and recorded) from the best Thinkers in the world. If you’re looking to add excitement and big smarts to your meetings, corporate events, company off-sites, “lunch & learns” and beyond, check it out.

Mitch Joel

Mitch Joel lives at the intersection of technology, business transformation and consumer culture. He is the Executive Director of Next Era Institute, a strategic intelligence platform helping leaders understand the forces reshaping business, technology, culture and society. The Institute identifies which shifts matter, explores their wider significance and translates them into strategic direction and momentum. Mitch is also a globally recognized keynote speaker. He has delivered thousands of presentations across both B2B and B2C industries to organizations including Google, Walmart, LEGO, Shopify, Microsoft, Procter & Gamble and Unilever. Strategy Magazine has called him “one of North America’s leading visionaries.” Mitch built his career by working directly inside the waves of change that reshaped modern business. He founded and built a digital marketing agency that worked with some of the world’s largest brands and was later acquired by WPP, where he served as President of a firm operating in 25 countries with almost 3,000 employees. Mitch is the bestselling author of Six Pixels of Separation and CTRL ALT Delete, and the host of Thinking With Mitch Joel, one of the longest-running business podcasts in the world. His writing and commentary appear in outlets including Harvard Business Review, Fast Company and Inc. Magazine. He is a member of Dr. Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 Coaches and was named to the Thinkers50 Radar. Mitch also hosts Groove – The No Treble Podcast, documenting the oral history of electric bass players. Mitch is also Co-Founder of ThinkersOne, a platform that enables companies to bring personalized thought leadership from world-class experts into meetings, events and off-sites in focused 15-minute bursts.